Going First with Amy Fritz

22: Our Ramsey Story, Part 6: Cut the Ties. Send a Flare into the Night

Nathan and Amy share about the the year after Nathan resigned from his job at Ramsey Solutions. Links: Julie Roys Podcast Michael Hyatt Podcast Organizational Narcissism and Virtuous Behavior I Got Your Six Leaving Ramsey Solutions Patreon Membership Community. Full Audio of the Got Your Six Meeting Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

21: Our Ramsey Story, Part 5: The Got Your Six Meeting (2 of 2 episodes)

Melissa J. Hogan joins Amy to respond to Dave Ramsey's characterization of Melissa and Melissa's marriage in a meeting he led for all of his team members in May of 2019. This episode may be triggering to people who have experienced abuse and subsequent secondary trauma from attempting to report and/or ask for help. Patreon Membership Community. Full Audio of the Got Your Six Meeting Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Transcript Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

20: Our Ramsey Story, Part 4, The Got Your Six Meeting (1 of 2 episodes)

Amy Fritz and Melissa J. Hogan dissect the Ramsey Solutions "Got Your Six" team meeting that was held in May of 2019 soon after Amy's husband, Nathan, resigned. Patreon Membership Community. Full Audio of the Got Your Six Meeting Perry Noble Fired. Mark Driscoll fired from Mars Hill. Bill Hybels fired from Willow Creek. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Transcript Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

19: Our Ramsey Story, Part 3: Everything Falls Apart

Nathan and Amy talk about what happened when Amy's friend suddenly stopped communicating with anyone and how Amy's determination to make sure her friend was okay led her to stumbling across information that led to the end of Nathan's employment at Ramsey Solutions. Links: Statements from Melissa J. Hogan Blog post about Nathan's exit from Ramsey Our Story of Leaving Ramsey Solutions Patreon Membership Community. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

18: Our Ramsey Story, Part 2: Spies, Cash, Fear and Rich People Habits

Amy and Nathan Fritz share part 2 of their experience with the Ramsey Solutions Organization. In this episode they talk about: Differences in accepting the culture between spouses who marry in to the company as opposed to those who were already married when their spouse was hired. The Daily Beast article/Twittergate. The time Amy thought she was going to get Nathan fired by leaving a comment on a blog post. Jon Acuff's resignation. The Ramsey Christmas Party. What happened when they lost the Best Place to Work contest. Patreon Membership Community. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

17: Our Ramsey Story, Part 1, Hoping To Be Chosen

Amy Fritz shares part 1 of the story of their family's experience with Ramsey Solutions, Dave Ramsey's Company. Article Amy went on the record for in January 2021. Ramsey Solutions Interview Process. Entreleadership book. Patreon Membership Community. Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

12: The Cost of Being a Bystander Who Speaks Out & Impression Management and Ramsey Solutions. Guest: Wade Mullen

Dr. Wade Mullen joins Amy for the second part of their conversation about impression management in Christian institutions. They talk about the cost of being a bystander who chooses to speak, Mullen's hope for the future, and Mullen does an analysis of the Ramsey Solutions response to a request for comment on an article they were planning to run. You can find the Religion News Service Article here. The Ramsey Solutions response is here. Links: Wade Mullen's website. Mullen's dissertation. Wade on Twitter. Wade's book, Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse and Freeing Yourself from its Power. The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

11: Impression Management in Abusive Organizations with Wade Mullen, Part 1

Author, speaker, and professor, Dr. Wade Mullen, joins Amy Fritz for a conversation about impression management. In 2018, Mullen earned a PhD in leadership and did his dissertation on how evangelical organizations use impression management strategies in the wake of an image-threatening event. He specifically focused on Mars Hill Church, Sovereign Grace Ministries (now Sovereign Grace Churches), and Bob Jones University for his dissertation. In this episode Mullen shares the red flags of organizations using impression management in an abusive way, why it's so hard for leaders/organizations to apologize, and the role of a bystander. Links: Wade Mullen's website. Mullen's dissertation. Wade on Twitter. Wade's book, Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse and Freeing Yourself from its Power. The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

9: How We Realized We Were in an Unhealthy Organization, Part 2. Guest: Melissa J. Hogan

This episode is part 2 of the conversation that Amy Fritz and Melissa Hogan started in the previous episode. Amy shares more of what she was seeing in Ramsey Solutions that felt very similar to news of scandal with other Christian ministries and leaders. In this conversation Melissa and Amy talk about over two dozen resources they found helpful in recognizing and processing abusive and/or unhealthy organizations, understanding the hurdles whistle-blowers have to telling the truth, and the voices that gave them courage to speak up. You can find the full list of resources at the podcast website: Untangled Faith Podcast Links: Boz Tchividjian, Abuse Survivor Advocate/Attorney Julie Roys Diane Langberg: Narcissism and the System it Breeds Afraid of the Doctor Melissa J. Hogan, her story Melissa J. Hogan on Twitter Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith) Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)

8: How We Realized We Were in an Unhealthy Organization. Guest: Melissa J. Hogan

Amy Fritz is joined by Melissa J. Hogan for a conversation about how they realized they were connected to an unhealthy organization. Melissa is an author of the upcoming book Afraid of the Doctor. She's also a lawyer, rare disease awareness advocate, and she consults on clinical trial design and patient outcome measures. In other words, she's brilliant. Amy and Melissa met when Melissa's husband at the time, and Nathan, Amy's husband, were working at Ramsey Solutions. In this episode they talk about how the events happening in the Evangelical world in 2018 and 2019, along with different strategic resources, helped to open their eyes red flags in the organization. Links: The Way of the Dragon of the Way of the Lamb PhD dissertation from Wade Mullen Bill Hybels abuse report James MacDonald reporting by Julie Roys Rachael Denhollander speaks up about abuse at Sovereign Grace Boz Tchividjian, Abuse Survivor Advocate/Attorney Julie Roys Diane Langberg: Narcissism and the System it Breeds The Body Keeps the Score Afraid of the Doctor Steve Hassan, cult expert Melissa J. Hogan Find us here: Twitter: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Instagram: Amy Fritz Untangled Faith Website: Untangled Faith Support the show (https://buymeacoffee.com/untangledfaith)